016: Protect your Profits & Vitalize Your Workforce – Margot Murphy

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Tony Maree Torrey 0:00
Welcome to the legacy in the making Show. I’m your host Ellie’s foremost Success Coach Tony Maree Torrey, I interviewed leaders and influencers who have gone beyond the superficial markers of success and claimed true fulfillment by leveraging their positions to create positive and profitable changes in their businesses and beyond. They share their stories and offer real world boots on the ground experience. That translates into practical advice to apply to your own journey. I invite you to this injection of wisdom and inspiration so you can prevail and leave your

Margot Murphy 0:41
legacy. I’m here today with Margot Murphy and Miko is a self professed chief vitality officer. Margo has had a long career with fortune 500 companies in 11 industries including or I said, Oh, blue chip companies. And she’s realized that now, with all her breadth of experience, it’s time for her to serve business and the world in a whole new way. So Margo, set out to do this initially by interviewing executives at 17 top organizations, and she discovered that there are two core problems that were contributing to profit loss and lack of vitality within the organization. And the first one was the organization itself, its structure, its culture, its metrics, processes, and reward mechanisms. And the other one was at a human resources level, it was their ability to attract resources that had the ability to execute on their responsibilities. And this was not just at the executive level, this was at all levels of the organization. And then their capacity to motivate their resources through reward mechanisms and through resourcing the right people for the right jobs in the right places. So she went about, and she wrote a book called, hold it up, Margo, there it is, literally, to vitalize. Your work for suffering the crisis of employee stagnation, exactly. So

Tony Maree Torrey 2:35
if you are a founding CEO and executive or an entrepreneur who wants to build a team for yourself, and make sure that you have a vital organization, listen up, because my goal has got the scoop on what it is that you can do to ensure that that happens, Miko, thank you so much for being here. Tell us a little bit more about yourself and how it is that you got to be a chief vitality officer.

Margot Murphy 3:05
But first of all, it’s nice to be here. Thank you very much for the invitation. I’m more than happy to be here and share. I actually chief vitality officer I grew up in the hills of Pennsylvania. And we were out and a lot of what you do in Pennsylvania, there’s a lot of trees, there’s a lot of grass. But you also get the idea that you’re here for a reason. And when you’re here for a reason, it stays in your mind and you move through forward through life. And you try to do different things, whether it’s in corporations and Academy, your family, you can’t. And you can feel your potential. But you can’t get to it yet. And so you say well, it’s just because I’m young, it’s just because I don’t know enough. It’s just because I don’t. So this idea of human potential has always been a passion for me. And I also started

Unknown Speaker 3:58
girlfriend.

Margot Murphy 4:00
I played lacrosse for about 25 years. And if you are have people on your team, and the person at wing doesn’t run fast enough, some people would say well take them off the team. answer’s no, there’s a lot of human potential in that soul. So maybe they can be the best strategic planner that you can have. So the strategic this potential and strategic human

evolution opening has always been here for me.

Tony Maree Torrey 4:31
Hmm, I totally get what you’re saying. And I think oftentimes what happens is people get trapped in and I know that this happens to me to some extent in the corporate world. I got trapped in what I was competent at, but not what I really excelled at and I think that that is one of the vitality sappers that happens within an organization and people don’t really think so much about allowing for strategic It moves within an organization with their people. Because they, you know, there are these kind of set tracks that people are put on. And there’s this expectation that you’re going to evolve within a certain track. But what if you are young and you don’t really know exactly what your passions and your gifts are yet sometimes people get really trapped. And I’ve worked with even like the higher level CEOs, who, who say, How did I get here? How did this happen? To me, this is not where I even set out to go. Or it’s not where I feel passionate. And so a lot of what the work I do is about helping people really get in touch with what their purpose is, which is what you were saying came to you naturally, because of the beautiful environment that you grew up in. Yeah, and some of us have to do a little bit more work around that it doesn’t always come naturally, we sort of know that we just haven’t bought it from that subconscious awareness into the conscious playground. So we can actually do something about it.

Margot Murphy 6:03
But also think that there’s, there’s something that happens and and of course, my focus is, you know, is on corporations, because there’s 153 million people in the country who work for inside of organizations. So I feel that it’s the best place to reach as many hearts as I can. But to reach the hearts, you have to get to the the leaders and it gets to the leaders, you have to have them see what in fact, is holding their employees back.

Tony Maree Torrey 6:30
Absolutely. And you and I are on a very similar mission, because I truly believe that we are going to change the face of the world through business, which is the reason why I work with leaders and influencers in business. Because, like you said, like when we can get to the to the heart of the matter for them. And they can start seeing how to get to their employees heart and really build your word vitality. within the organization. It’s not only amazing for people on the planet, but it also contributes to innovation and profitability. Like people think these are soft skills, but they’re not they’re actually they’re hard money making skills as well.

Margot Murphy 7:10
I agree with you. Let me go back to something you said. And that is vitality. The reason I chose the word vitality, you have flexibility, you have agility, that’s fine. But vitality is actually life force. Hmm. So the life force of your company is not just in the agility of these two groups to work together or a manufacturing team. It is the breathing piece of your company. And if for some reason you are not taking a look at that breathing piece in your including everybody, that first of all, that’s your first level of stagnation. And then the second thing is to go and take a look and see where in your organization people are stagnant. Have you heard the statistics? 85% of employees aren’t engaged?

Tony Maree Torrey 8:00
Yes, I have. And I have been one of those unengaged employees, fortunately did a lot of personal development. So I reengaged myself, as a result of the work that I was doing for myself, and it completely nothing to do with the organization improving or changing itself. In fact, the organization got worse, the culture got worse. But I just worked out how to keep my level of commitment and focus and passion in my job. Regardless, I think it’s a unique ability, and it takes doing your work,

Margot Murphy 8:35
the whole idea of 85% of employees aren’t engaged, that says, in essence, that in every single function, and every single level, there are people who aren’t engaged 85% that’s an epidemic level we talked about. Yes, but we work. And Gallup has been reporting this for 20 years. Mm hmm. executives have spent billions and millions of dollars hiring people to try and solve employee lack of engagement. So they come in and paint the walls a different color, they change the chairs, and they give them a little bit more date day training. And you can take training and anything you want, and they give them a couple days for home. But that number hasn’t changed. And it’s a it’s a global number and hasn’t changed.

Tony Maree Torrey 9:23
Why it is we haven’t been able to move the needle.

Margot Murphy 9:26
Because lack of engagement is a symptom. You can’t solve a symptom. Hmm, what else disease cannot solve a symptom? So I said, Okay, let me go out. Somebody needs to look at this from a different answer. I’m a great Einstein. If you haven’t solved and solve the problem as asking those questions, you better find out what other questions you can ask. Yes. I love that. One of the things that I take my people through is is questions brainstorming, not brainstorming, brainstorming that question brainstorming because there’s so much power in the question. So what are the question that you asked? Well, I actually wanted to put myself in front of as many people as I could. So I actually started out as a contract trainer one around the country, I did 130 seminars a year, in eight different topics and 17 different states, because I wanted to see the difference between what I was hearing was that the topic was that the state was at something, it was flat. It was unbelievable how loud screaming in your face it was. And the reality is, obviously it was loud and screaming in your face. People are busy, and people are busy, busy, busy. And with this accelerating economy, they’re busier than ever, and you’ll hear you’ll hear executives say, my people aren’t stagnant, they’re busy, they’re scrambling

Tony Maree Torrey 10:57
what they’re doing right

Unknown Speaker 10:59
now.

Margot Murphy 11:01
But they’re personally stagnant. They don’t have any personal future while working for you. Mm hmm. And that’s a that’s a that’s right now that that cannot be and we can’t have that and be able to have those people want to follow your new strategic plans in this accelerating economy. Not gonna happen. So there’s a collision course coming. They need more employees, they need faster evolution of their employee talents and skills. And the employees are over here looking the other way, saying, Thanks, boss. Yeah, I’ll see you tomorrow. Maybe.

Tony Maree Torrey 11:40
As the workforce gets younger, I think that’s happening more and more,

Margot Murphy 11:44
is the whole idea of what’s in it for me. Mm hmm. Have you heard what’s in it for me, though?

Tony Maree Torrey 11:49
Yeah, the western Prince. Yeah.

Margot Murphy 11:51
It’s no longer a millennial tournament’s and everybody turn. That’s true. But if boomers are saying what’s in it for me, and you have more gig hopping, and you have more of everything going on, the question is, what are you going to do about when I was working in the corporate world, I

Tony Maree Torrey 12:05
was also investing in real estate, I was working my way up the corporate ladder and got up pretty high. And I was investing in real estate and beginning my coaching practice as well, which started out as my personal development journey. And then people started asking me like, I see a really big difference in you, what are you doing? So I fell into coaching pretty naturally, and then realize I needed to actually kind of, you know, train in it to know what I was doing and nearly $300,000 in sort of patients and additional training later, here I am, the thing that really cemented my determination to leave the corporate world was when I had the experience of both my parents passing away within two hours of each other. And I was, I was very lucky in that because I had started these this internal journey, I had received some wisdom that told me to drop everything, and go to Australia. And I landed there. And both my parents who had been divorced for 25 years, died 24 hours later on, wow, kind of different sets of circumstances. And so it was, it’s one of the reasons why I teach my people to pause and listen to their wisdom. And it’s like, one of the foundational values that I have in my business is what I call innate wisdom. And it’s because I start, you know, I got back and I started looking at my clients and realized that they that that component was missing for them in their lives. And then we miss out on what’s really important in our lives. But getting to the crux of why it was that I was then determined to shift things was because my executive vice president who knew exactly what I had just gone through, and I had actually been working somewhat even though I was going through all of this, I was working while I was in Australia, but I got back. And there was nothing personal whatsoever. It was where is this report that I was expecting from you? And I’m like, That’s it. That’s it. I am sick of being treated like a unit of production. You know exactly what my life experience has just been over the last two weeks. I actually missed my dad’s funeral. I wasn’t able to attend my dad’s funeral because I had to get back. And I was able to attend my mother’s and I was able to have a conversation with my dad before he passed away to say I’m really sorry, I’m not going to be there for this. But my dad was a military hero. It was a it was a big deal his funeral and I didn’t get to experience it. Oh, yeah. It was like, how can I honestly dedicate my life to a company whose leadership is behaving like this. And that was when I really put my plan to transition into coaching full time. Now I really put it in gear

Margot Murphy 14:56
which is certainly understand that I didn’t leave under those circumstances. telecom industry as you know, I worked for at&t and Lucent Technologies that my job was global and and the telecom industry across the board tanked because it was over produced for a while. But there was an opportunity to take the packages. So I did after 30 years, I said, Fine, let’s do that good for you. I think. I think the 85% lack of engagement really bothered me. Like I said, I’m a human potential person. And everybody has a starshine. Everybody has something that wants to radiate to get grow bigger to do something. And if you’re sitting in, it’s all of your all of your employees are in there being busy, busy, busy. And as you said, thank you very much for being busy, but do more. Right? And let me go back just one step. And that is the idea of going out into the field and asking different questions. What really became clear is that in this personal stagnation of people, when I started to take a look at the places within organizations that actually caused stagnation, things began to get very clear, because all throughout the organization, there are places and times and things in habitual employee leadership, management practices that we don’t even think about anymore, we take them for granted. Therefore, we don’t see how stagnation causing they are end of year appraisals, I know

Tony Maree Torrey 16:30
I totally went, I immediately went to 360 review.

Margot Murphy 16:34
And if you’re approved, everybody knows, everybody knows that there is an allocation of funds that says here, throw it throw these funds out over everybody. And it’s up to you managers to figure out what little seed you can give to people to make them happy. So in the beginning of the year, you said, well, you’re starting a new year, Isn’t this great? At the end, this is what I want you to do for the year. And when we get to the year end appraisals next year, there’s an opportunity for you, everybody laughs everybody loves. So it’s not an incentive. So ask yourself, What is an incentive? Where are they? It’s not promotion, and it’s not money. And a lot of people go into a company and they say, well, this isn’t what I came in here for, well, if you interview them, so what did you come in here for? Well, I thought I was going to be in sales, but they have me in accounting. You put people in seats and say just stay there, we need somebody to take care of that for a little while. And then you forget that they’re there. And it’s a low level job, then you begin to think of that person is low level, because they’re sitting in that low level job, and then you go talk to other people. So there’s a lot of points when you when you really take a look at what creates stagnation in an organization. And what we found this is an interesting statistic. I think about 60% of things that make people stagnant are common to all organizations.

Tony Maree Torrey 18:01
I would agree with you What do you think those things are? And because this this can apply to a logical small organization, right?

Margot Murphy 18:08
Absolutely. You bet. You bet. A lot of managers are not people, people, managers get paid to manage numbers, and they’re interested in their own career. But if you’re not a people leader, and your employee has a problem, and you don’t even know what their name is 92% of employees who work for managers who don’t solve problems, don’t want to be there. They don’t work as hard. And they try and leave within two years because they can’t stand it. Mm hmm. How do you how do you lead that? How do you lead that? And if you say, what was your experience in solving problems? We’re Problem solved.

Tony Maree Torrey 18:56
Are you referring to my experience in the corporate world?

Margot Murphy 18:58
Yeah. Did you see your problems were probably solved because you’re a problem solver? Yes,

Tony Maree Torrey 19:05
I actually that the same executive vice president stopped including me in one of the leadership meetings because I kept on asking questions. And I remember like a colleague of mine, sent me a message on communicate kind of going, I don’t know why you rattle him so much. You’re just asking the hard questions. And I actually got disinvited from that strategy meeting, because I was asking the hard questions, and he didn’t want to have to answer them.

Margot Murphy 19:45
You asked what are some of the stagnating things I mean, and once you start to take a look at them in the organization, and it’s like connect the dots, remember the kids, kids game, connect the dots. So you can sit in any organization, you can connect the dots, you can pick out the Big things that are common. But then there’s always things that are custom to that organization. And when you start adding those, and you get a picture, Mm hmm. And the good thing is, is once you get the picture, then you can see how to turn the picture. And it doesn’t mean that you have to change the structure or the function of the company is just how to function within that structure, to make it different for the employees. And this is not an HR perspective, everybody. This is a senior leadership conversation, because you cannot solve employee stagnation from the middle. They’re not trained for it, they don’t see it, there’s not a, it just you just can’t do it.

Tony Maree Torrey 20:45
So I know I see this a lot with my clients is that they’re still struggling to create the top down leadership model, which has a mindset associated with Well, we’re supposed to have all the answers. And usually people feel like they experience a lot of imposter syndrome, because they know that they don’t actually have all the answers. But they have a tendency to want to kind of cover that up, rather than helping create a dialog where people can contribute to the answers. And like, that’s why I got booted out of that meeting, because my AVP didn’t have the answers to the questions that I was asking. And my thought around it Is that it? It just challenged his ego. Because he couldn’t answer the questions that I was asking. And there were questions that were intended and important to, to increase in the vitality of the organization. I don’t know that I’d have used that word at the time. But now when I look back in retrospect, that’s exactly what it was. So Margo, tell us a little bit about some of the solutions that you’ve come up with, because you’ve got the book, which is amazing. But you’ve also told me about this collaborative partnership that you have had in place for five years, and you have created an amazing piece of software that can help organizations correct. And that’s like part of your overall solution. So you’ve got like a consulting leg of your business. And the software creates the picture of of essentially the problems that are in place. So then you can deliver your consulting in a far more meaningful way. Am I capturing what your solution is correctly?

Margot Murphy 22:29
You certainly are opening the door. Thank you. One of the things that that is absolutely necessary. I just mentioned that you can’t solve this from the middle, you can’t solve employee stagnation. And so you might say it’s an employee problem. But it’s not, we have to start at the executive level. And if you talk to the executives, I’ve gone to a lot of conferences, and you start talking to executives, and soon as you mentioned employee, they just and they look the other way, and they say HR, go see HR, well, it’s not an HR problem. They’re not trying to do anything about it. What I know from my years of corporate that you need to understand the problems that the the executive is having at the moment and answer their questions. If you don’t answer their issues and their problems. The rest of it’s kind of irrelevant. And so part of what is the problem, executives know, many people, many executives are really frustrated that they spent millions of dollars trying to solve the employee lack of engagement problem and nothing worked. They know that consulting companies have come in and said, you know what we’re going to do, we’re going to take six to eight of our best people. And we’re going to walk around your organizations for about a month. And then we’re going to summarize our findings and come back and tell you what we think your employees are saying. Now, that was a practice for a long time. But executives get it, they are tired of that. They say it doesn’t work. It never worked. We were just being tolerant. So we have to solve that problem, too. So what we did is took a look developed a piece of software, it’s proprietary is called corporate vitality assessment software. And we don’t walk around, it’s in the cloud week. One of the things that happens with the walking around and the previous HR approaches has been that they come in, they come back with recommendations, then they either try a one size fits all, Mm hmm. Which never works. Or they say Tell you what, let’s test it out in this department. And let’s see what happens over here. And let’s see if it works. In the meantime, everybody else’s disconnected. You try it out for two or three months or two or three years sometimes. And then you have got no further along than you were three years ago. So our feeling is we developed a software so we could actually go in and do it’s an attitudinal software. It’s not based on Do you like the person next door? How high is the seat? Do you want more work from home? or What color is the walls? It’s not based on age. So it’s if you don’t have employees with an attitude that want to follow you. And you say, Okay, here’s the strategy, we’re going over the next hill, they’ll say, Yes, boss, Yes, boss for two or three weeks, and then you won’t see him. And there, that’s because they are sitting in their seat, and they don’t want to go over the next hill and have you asked them to do anymore. So what this does is, it enables us to look at it, we can look at the department, we can look at a level we can look at a function, we can look at the corporation as a whole, we can come back with data that gives you an idea of the depth and breadth of stagnation anywhere in your company, and vitality and see what the difference is. But we can also give you an idea as to what the cause is in that locale. In some locales, if for instance, in a function, it could be that the manager isn’t a people leader. In another locale, it could be the problems aren’t being solved for shipping and incoming freight. Another one could be so you can’t do one size fits all. So we have the opportunity to go and say, and we do it visually, too. So you have since everybody’s visual with a 3.5 second attention span is something up that says, Here’s green, here’s yellow, here’s red, and have the executive say, what’s that? Then we can tell? And can we there we come in and help them understand it with a Strategic Action Plan, what they need to do to lift it all up so you can move forward better.

Tony Maree Torrey 26:44
That’s so fascinating to me, I’m assuming that there must be some level of confidentiality and anonymity in place for collecting the feedback. Is that right?

Margot Murphy 26:55
Absolutely. What we do is, we place numerical values to each of the names and the emails within the company we have run across, we absolutely assure everybody that it’s it’s confidential. And it is, what we needed to do is leave a little bit open in case we saw an outlier, in which case somebody was in trouble. We needed to identify who that was. So we could actually help them. Those things do come up. And we respect that.

Tony Maree Torrey 27:24
Yeah. So it sounds like there’s a safety first component there. Yeah, I love. I love that. I get that oftentimes, there’s a certain amount of skepticism around confidentiality, but I have definitely been asked to give feedback in various corporations that I’ve been in. And there’s been like, wow, exactly how honest Am I going to be about this? Because I don’t really know, even though they’re telling me it’s confidential. I don’t really know for sure that it is confidential. What do you do to reassure the people that are contributing to this?

Margot Murphy 27:57
We don’t ask them for their opinions.

Tony Maree Torrey 28:01
Okay, interesting. What do you ask? Well, there’s

Margot Murphy 28:04
a great body of study on attitudinal research. So we took the top pieces of attitude or research and my partner James, is a certified leader in that space. So we updated it, upgraded it, embedded it in the software. So what we say is, in an ideal situation, pick out of these 300 words, or phrases, pick out the ones that that represent how you feel in an ideal situation. Then we move it on over and say, Okay, now, think about your current job. Pick out the words, then there’s algorithms to say how far apart it is? And then how do you get to your, what you’re looking for. And the great thing about that, we can have seen executives do the same thing. So you see how far away executives are managers, leaders, levels, functions, really get a tremendous picture about what the what some of the issues are,

Tony Maree Torrey 29:08
and love that. So you can actually take a look at what the delta is between like what the leadership thinks the situation is, and what the grass roots thinks the situation is, or how they feel about it.

Margot Murphy 29:20
Yep. And then the nice thing is, is then if you really think about you can you can actually ask us to do that baseline. But if you want to see progress, you want to do progress tracking, and you want to attach ROI to it. You just need to implement some programs, then we can do it again. And you can see what the it was see what the progress is.

Tony Maree Torrey 29:40
This is a very sophisticated piece of software. And I know your world is mostly the corporate world. What recommendations would you have for someone that’s listening to this and going, Wow, that sounds amazing. I really wish I could do that with my people, but I just don’t have the capabilities of hiring Margo. James. So what recommendations would you have for the smaller org,

Margot Murphy 30:04
I’d like to reassure that the smallest group we’ve done is 10. And what we could do, then in the big value, there was 10 employees, and then you can see how far apart management wasn’t thinking in the 10 employees. So that so they knew that they had some work to do. I don’t think one of the biggest things is this idea of what’s in it for me. And I would, I asked, I’d ask all of your listeners to not walk away from that, because that idea of what’s in it for me, what you need to do is start thinking about how to provide continual what’s in it for me, for everyone. That’s the big dynamic change. That’s the really big dynamic change. What’s in it, for me, sometimes doesn’t exist, sometimes it’s in the two or three people who are being mentored or somebody else, you want to promote your favorite person.

Unknown Speaker 30:58
Mm hmm. All organization

Margot Murphy 31:02
is still sitting there saying what’s in it for me. So I would really recommend that they start taking a look at what’s in it for me, and we have lots of suggestions.

Tony Maree Torrey 31:11
And I’m assuming that your book covers a lot of them as well, do you want to hold the cover up for us again,

Margot Murphy 31:18
it’s vitalize, your workforce conquering the crisis of employee stagnation?

Tony Maree Torrey 31:24
That’s fantastic. And Margo, this has been a great conversation has given me a lot of insight for some conversations that I need to have with my team. And I’m excited about it, it’s like, I feel like I’ve done a pretty good job of being a good leader, because I experienced the pain of working under leadership that didn’t just treat me as a unit of production. I think what I get from what you’re saying is that the what’s in it, for me is very different by individual. And for some people, it might be advancement in the organization. But for someone else it might be I just want to get my job done and, and you know, be able to forget about it. So I can go home and enjoy my evenings and my weekends, right? Like it could be very different for different people.

Margot Murphy 32:07
That’s very true. That’s why we say what you do is you embed an element of choice. They can choose to be in the vitality program, in which they can have continual what’s in it for me and have their choices make a difference in what their next steps are based on their own initiative. And they can choose and say, guess what, I love my job, I just want to stay right here. In which case they get they get recognized for that they’re not downgraded for that they get right. with everybody else, the whole idea of when I asked, I was in a room about 90 people. Anybody in here have anything on their desk? That if they did it again, they wouldn’t learn anything by doing it again.

Unknown Speaker 32:55
Exactly. That’s a good question.

Margot Murphy 33:01
peals of laughter in this room, lots of hands went up. And I think you gotta start thinking that way, because that’s stagnation, if they haven’t done anything different in a day, that’s why we developed one of the things we put in here was dynamic delegation. delegation is generally been where, up at the top down, yep, it’s up. Or it’s two or three people at the top who have staff or budget to do something or it’s, I don’t want to do this anymore in here, do it in the people receive it end up with this a stack load of stuff that doesn’t make any difference to them in

Unknown Speaker 33:37
your work.

Margot Murphy 33:38
Yep, transform it, transform it into something that’s scheduled, transfers off your desk dynamic delegation, everybody gets to move something off their desk on a regular schedule, whether it’s twice a year, or it’s three times a year, or four times a year. And guess what they have to learn how to communicate, they have to learn how to mentor because it’s part of the so you’re actually people how to mentor and collaborate at the same time.

Tony Maree Torrey 34:07
That’s fantastic.

Unknown Speaker 34:09
A little differently.

Tony Maree Torrey 34:11
I just love it. Margot, you’re obviously a wealth of wisdom here. It’s been such a great conversation. Where can people find you?

Margot Murphy 34:21
They can find me my my website is www vitalize. Your workforce.com perfect. They can also email me at Margot Murphy at vitalize your workforce calm. And if they do me a favor and put your show or your name in the subject line, that would be marvelous. Okay, great.

Tony Maree Torrey 34:41
So folks put legacy in the making show in your subject line. And then Margo will know exactly how it is that you’ve got to meet her and know what kind of conversation you might be interested in having. So thank you so much, Margo. It’s been great. I’m glad you tuned in to the Legacy in the Making Show. If you’re genuinely interested in creating positive change in your business or your life or on a more global scale, I invite you to connect with me at Tonymaree.com. That’s Tony with a Y Maree with two E’s. When you get there you’ll find the Path to Purpose Master Plan, the truly brilliant method to make sure you’re clear on why you’re here. This is the absolute critical foundation to honing your instincts and leaving a legacy you’ll be proud of. You can also find out about the Innate Wisdom Business Council which is an opportunity to evolve your vision in the company of like-minded leaders and much much more. Thanks for listening. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and we’ll see you next time.